INTERVIEW:
I respect hugely, it has been great to hear from music journalist and author Tom Doyle about his upcoming book, Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush. It is out on 27th October, and I would recommend people pre-order it. The Kate Bush News website gave it a glowing review. There have been a few Kate Bush biographies written – including Graeme Thomson’s excellent Under the Ivy: The Life & Music of Kate Bush -, though Doyle’s take is not a standard linear narrative. Rather than cash-in on the recent resurgence and resurrection of Kate Bush’s genius via Running Up That Hill (A Deal with God) appearing on Netflix’s Stranger Things, this is an affectionate biography that is mosaic and highlights Kate Bush’s incredible sense of humour. Funny, honest, and compelling, I have been lucky enough to read the book. As an ardent superfan, it was a delight to read the passion, affection, respect and brilliance throughout. I also came away learning new things about Bush. I asked Doyle about his 2005 meeting with Bush, when he first discovered her amazing music, whether he has anything else Bush-related in the future, in addition to why, in his opinion, Bush remains so loved and respected. Go and pre-order the stunning and must-read Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush! An amazingly written book that is as useful and essential for the die-hard Kate Bush fans and new converts, it was a real pleasure to speak with…
IN THIS PHOTO: Kate Bush in 2005/PHOTO CREDIT: Trevor Leighton
THE wonderful Tom Doyle.
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Hi Tom. Your book, Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush, is out on 27th October. Compared to the biography by Graeme Thomson, Under the Ivy: The Life & Music of Kate Bush, this takes a more mosaic and multifaceted approach. What was the reason behind this approach, rather than a more traditional and straight telling of Kate Bush’s life and career?
Basically, the mosaic approach was suggested to me by my agent and suddenly I thought, that sounds great. It was inspiring to me, really. I started imagining different chapters and scenes straight away, and that’s always a good sign. I always know I might be onto something with a book idea when I think to myself, I’d read that.
I know people have been pushing you to write a book about Kate Bush since around 2005. Why was now the right time to write Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush?
Well, the interview with Kate in MOJO, in 2005 for Aerial, had gone down really well, with the readers and the record label and Kate herself, so I thought I should maybe just leave it there. But then, it was a four-hour interview and Kate had really committed to it, and so when the 2018 remasters were released, I wrote a second MOJO cover story from the transcripts. The first feature had basically been about her return with Aerial after 12 years, and her battle for creative control down the years. The second one had been more about her recording journey and went through us talking about her albums. But then I realised there was still tons of great stuff left over that no one had seen that could really help light up the corners of different parts of Kate’s story. Also, features in magazines tend to get forgotten as the years pass, so I decided it was a good time to put all of this into something more lasting, which became the book.
“For new converts, I hope this is the place where they can really dig into Kate’s story and understand her more”.
A lot of big Kate Bush fans will read the biography with interest. There might be some new converts who are thinking about buying Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush. Is it a book that is accessible and welcoming to new fans as it is the faithful?
I really hope it is because that was definitely the plan. Long-devoted fans will of course know quite a few of these stories, but hopefully they’re told with renewed energy and added insight, particularly with Kate herself putting her point of view across throughout. For new converts, I hope this is the place where they can really dig into Kate’s story and understand her more. With the whole episodic nature of the book, I wanted to keep it pacey, and so hopefully it’s funny in places, like when she appears on Swap Shop or the whole “Kate is a Tory” affair. And then hopefully it’s moving in places (like the chapters on Kate and David Bowie, or Moments of Pleasure or A Coral Room).
You open the book with your interview with Kate Bush in 2005, as she was promoting her ‘return’, Aerial. What was it like to speak with her? What were your fondest memories from the interview?
It was a great and obviously very memorable day. At the start of the book, I write about how a car picked me up at my house and I didn’t know exactly where I was going, except that I was being driven to Kate Bush’s house. So, I wanted to put the reader in that car with me, because obviously it felt like some kind of brilliant and mysterious thing to be doing. Kate and I were both clearly nervy, but that didn’t last for long. There’re loads of great memories of that day – obviously meeting Kate, but also being invited by her to see her studio and having a little guided tour round the grounds of her house. But probably my favourite bits where when I said we should have a break, and a smoke (me, she’d given up), and we just sat around nattering away.
In the interview, you asked Bush whether she can understand why people build up myths around her (which she couldn’t). Do you think there are still misconceptions about her?
Yeah, well, the obvious one is her “recluse” tag. I point out in the book that rather than having escaped from the real world, Kate has actually retreated to the real world, which obviously is far-removed from the weirdness of modern celebrity. I also think the myth-building is kind of inevitable with someone like Kate, who never wanted to be famous, but whose music involves these huge flights of imagination. So, in the absence of her being out there in the public eye, explaining every aspect of her work, people’s imaginations fill that hole with whoever they think “Kate Bush” is.
“I found Kate to be really, really funny and the first to puncture the reverential bubble surrounding her”.
One thing that is clear from the music is that Kate Bush is this mix of grounded and relatable, but also almost superhuman and a genius. It is her sense of humour and kindness that comes through throughout the biography. Was this an important aspect to highlight? Do you think these are underrated aspects of her personality?
Her humour is underrated, for sure. I devote a chapter to her love of comedy and her friendships with comedians. I found Kate to be really, really funny and the first to puncture the reverential bubble surrounding her. We really did have a great laugh during the interviews I did with her in 2005/2006. I mean, I’d completely missed the fact that the backing vocals going “Ow, ow, ow” in Hounds of Love were supposed to be dogs. She said, “Oh yeah, it’s the Hounds of Love, innit!”
As a Kate Bush diehard and superfan, I have learned a lot about Bush and her life reading Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush. Did you learn a lot of new things about her when researching for the biography?
Well, that’s great to hear, and I did, for sure. I suppose the main thing was why she retreated from the media. I keep returning in the book to the stories of her promo activities down the years – and it all starts off well when she’s young and on Swap Shop etc., but then particularly during The Dreaming era, she’s faced with all these idiots like Mike Read or Dave Lee Travis treating her like she’s some nutter and it’s easy to see why she would think, nah. I didn’t realise until I was about halfway through the book that in these sections I was actually writing a “show don’t tell” explanation of why someone who never wanted to be famous might decide they’d had enough of being in the promo spotlight. Kate says she felt after The Red Shoes that she was back in the same position of being treated like a weirdo, and she was clearly tired anyway, for various reasons. And so everything changed in her approach to interviews after that, becoming more selective, and I think when you read the book you can get a better understanding of why that happened.
You have interviewed Kate Bush and your biography is out soon. Do you have any plans for anything else Kate Bush-related in the future in the form of books or articles?
I’ll be doing some events around the book. I’m appearing at The New Cue’s Music Books of 2022 do at The Social in London on December 1 with a load of other authors, and there’ll be other things announced soon, so follow me on Twitter for updates.
“I remember very clearly seeing her on Top of the Pops with Wuthering Heights when I was 10. It was just so different and made an immediate impact on millions of people, I think”.
Take me back to the start. My first experience of Bush’s music was watching the video for Wuthering Heights when I was four or five. What was your first taste of her music and what why did it hit you so hard?
I remember very clearly seeing her on Top of The Pops with Wuthering Heights when I was 10. It was just so different and made an immediate impact on millions of people, I think. The first couple of albums I didn’t own, but I borrowed Never for Ever from a record library and taped it! But I think the first Kate records I bought were the Sat In Your Lap single and then The Dreaming when it came out. Then Hounds of Love was released when I was 18, and it was definitely an album for the “heads” as well as the pop audience. One of my mates at the time was, let’s just say, a small-time herbal supplier, and that album was played constantly round his place.
It might be an impossible question, but do you have a favourite Kate Bush album and song?
I’m still going for Sat In Your Lap. I didn’t realise the connection between it and Eno/Byrne’s My Life in the Bush of Ghosts until much later, but I loved that album at the same time. So The Dreaming is still the record I reach for (the 2018 remaster sounds superb on vinyl). But I could pick out so many other songs: And Dream of Sheep in particular is so beautiful and creepy. And I really love her unreleased early demo, Something Like a Song, which I write about in the book.
You end Running Up That Hill: 50 Visions of Kate Bush by writing “So concluded Catherine Bush, unequalled purveyor of lovingly made artisan albums since 1978. Still very much in business”. What has been your reaction to the success and new audiences she has found this year?
Well, as Kate said, the whole world’s “gone mad”. I actually started writing the book at the end of last year, and one of my mates texted me in the summer to tell me Running Up That Hill was being used in Stranger Things, and I didn’t think that much of it at the time. After all, Cloudbusting was used in Palm Springs in 2020, and so on. But then obviously, I was amazed by how the song and interest in Kate blew up so quickly. It’s easy to see why the song resonates now. It’s driving and empowering and modern-sounding, because it focuses on the beats and vocals and these strange sounds. For a whole new audience, it was the portal into Kate’s world, and there’s obviously plenty to explore there.
“We’ll find out, but I’d be very surprised if she doesn’t release at least one more album”.
Do you think we will hear new music from Kate Bush? Is there more to come from her?
It’s a fool’s game trying to predict Kate’s next moves, I reckon. But we’re getting on for nearly the same 12-year-gap that there was between The Red Shoes and Aerial, since 50 Words for Snow. Obviously, there’s been the huge production and staging of Before The Dawn since then, but I reckon there’s a good chance we’ll hear something new in 2023. Impossible to predict what that might be, really. Will the massive popularity of the beats-driven Running Up That Hill inspire her to make music that’s more groove-based? Will she push further into the long-form, conceptual suites? We’ll find out, but I’d be very surprised if she doesn’t release at least one more album.
Is it possible to explain why Kate Bush remains so loved and unique decades after her career began?
Well, her work is a whole universe to explore, isn’t it? Much like David Bowie’s, really. Plus, people are appreciating more and more just how singular a talent she is, and an uncompromising one too, which is always inspiring. I think basically the songs/albums/videos/shows are so strong, and lasting, on loads of levels that Kate’s position as one of the all-time musical greats is totally assured for generations to come.
Finally, I will include anything Kate Bush-related here. It can be a song, interview, or video. What shall we end with?
Let’s go for the bootleg home recorded demo of Something Like a Song. That haunting “ooo-oo-ooo” hook line is so amazing. I’d really like to hear her sample it in a new track, and duet with herself across the years. Now there’s an idea…