FEATURE:
Paul McCartney at Eighty
IN THIS PHOTO: Paul McCartney in 1964/PHOTO CREDIT: RA/Lebrecht Music & Arts
Paul McCartney and Me: The Interviews: Brian O’Connor (Sodajerker on Songwriting)
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CONTINUING my run of Paul McCartney features…
IN THIS PHOTO: Sodajerker on Songwriting’s Brian O’Connor (right) alongside his co-host, Simon Barber
ahead of his eightieth birthday in June, it is time for another interview with a terrific fan of the legend. Now, I have been speaking with Sodajerker on Songwriting’s Brian O’Connor. Alongside his Sodajerker cohort Simon Barber, O’Connor spoke with the iconic McCartney back in 2018. The two have also appeared twice on Chris Shaw’s I Am the EggPod (they talked about The Beatles’ Beatles for Sale in 2019, and Paul McCartney and Wings’ Red Rose Speedway last year). I asked O’Connor about what it was like interviewing McCartney, how he regarded in his native Liverpool now (O’Connor and Barber are a songwriting duo from Liverpool), what O’Connor’s favourite Beatles, Wings and Macca solo albums are, and what his reaction to The Beatles: Get Back was. Speaking with someone who runs a podcast about songwriting, it was fascinting to learn what O’Connor had to say about McCartney as a scribe, and what he felt some of the master’s underrated tracks are. Sit back and enjoy my interview with Sodajerker on Songwriting’s Brian O’Connor, as he passionately discusses…
PHOTO CREDIT: Collier Schorr for GQ
A songwriting hero.
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Hi Brian. In the lead-up to Paul McCartney’s eightieth birthday on 18th June, I am interviewing different people about their love of his music and when they first discovered the work of a genius. When did you first discover Paul McCartney’s music? Was it a Beatles, Wings or solo album that lit that fuse?
Brian O’Connor: I’ve been aware of Paul, one way or another, since as far back as I can remember. My first recollection of him would be from the mid-’80s, when, to the 6-year-old me, he was just an agreeable-looking fellow who wore fetching sweaters, appeared on the odd chat show, and sang with animated amphibians.
Later, when I was about 10, I started paying more attention to these ‘Beatles’ characters I’d heard about and would borrow my dad’s Magical Mystery Tour, Abbey Road and White Album cassettes to listen to on my Walkman. I didn’t realise it at the time, but it was Paul’s songs that I naturally gravitated towards, especially the jaunty, child-friendly ones like ‘Hello Goodbye’, ‘Your Mother Should Know’, ‘Martha My Dear’ and, yes, ‘Maxwell’s Silver Hammer’ (with, as I later realised, its less than child-friendly lyrics).
I also recall being at a school friend’s house around that same time and looking through his dad’s vinyl collection, which included some Paul/Wings stuff like Band on the Run and Red Rose Speedway. I was really intrigued by those album covers (the image of Paul with the rose in his mouth really stuck with me for some reason), although a few more years would pass before I actually listened to those records properly, and properly investigated his solo output in general.
Like me, you must have been engrossed by The Beatles: Get Back on Disney+. How did it change your impression of The Beatles at that time, and specifically Paul McCartney’s role and influence on the rest of the band? Did you have any favourite moments from the three-part documentary?
A short while prior to watching the documentary, I’d heard Beatles scholar Mark Lewisohn - who’d listened to the Nagra tapes in their entirety - talk at length about January ‘69 and how what he’d heard on the tapes didn’t necessarily tally with the established narrative that the Get Back project was a miserable experience for everyone concerned. So, in the light of Mark’s findings, the upbeat nature of much of the footage in Peter Jackson’s doc wasn’t that much of a surprise to me, I have to say.
Similarly, I’ve read a lot about The Beatles and Paul over the years, and it’s been quite clear to me for a long time that McCartney was very much the driving force in their final years together; that, without him gently-but-firmly kicking the others’ arses, it could’ve been curtains for the band a couple of years previously. So, again, seeing Paul’s proactiveness in action, whilst utterly fascinating, wasn’t revelatory.
Having said all that, I adored the Get Back documentary, of course. Favourite moments: the rooftop finale (naturally), Billy Preston’s introduction, George generously helping Ringo with an embryonic ‘Octopus’s Garden’, Paul on the piano demonstrating how he writes songs to a wide-eyed young crew member, the moment ‘Get Back’ begins to emerge before our very eyes…But really the whole thing was a joy; as close as we’ll ever get to hanging out with those guys. Like most others who watched it, I didn’t want it to end.
“Similarly, I’ve read a lot about The Beatles and Paul over the years, and it’s been quite clear to me for a long time that McCartney was very much the driving force in their final years together”.
Following the mass adoration of that documentary, Beatles and McCartney fans will ask what more there is in the vaults. Do you think Giles Martin might choose another Beatles album to remaster? What McCartney-related release would you like to see in 2022?
I’d be very surprised if there aren’t more Giles remixes on the slate. Next year is the 60th anniversary of Please Please Me, so I’m sure that occasion will be marked in some way, although I don’t know how much bonus material exists from those sessions (or those for With The Beatles, A Hard Day’s Night etc.) to justify a boxset. They didn’t have time to fuck around in the studio in the early days, after all, so outtakes from that period will be rather thinner on the ground.
As for Macca, I’m hoping we’ll see more of those lovely Archive Collection releases, which I’ve been super-impressed with so far, even if acquiring them all has brought me close to penury. London Town and/or Back to the Egg next please, Paul, if you’re reading. (He’s reading this, right?) Anyway, this being his 80th year, I’m sure something pretty special must be in the works at MPL HQ.
If you had to select your favourite Beatles, Wings and McCartney albums (one each), which would they be and why?
My favourite Beatles album changes almost daily, but right now I’ll choose Rubber Soul because, for me, it represents an overall artistic ‘step up’ for the band; not only in the songwriting, but the musicianship and arranging too. Also, imagine having so many good songs that you can afford to bury ‘In My Life’ towards the end of side 2!
As for Wings, I’d probably plump for Red Rose Speedway. It’s an odd, ramshackle record - a bit of a hotchpotch really -, but it’s bursting with rough-round-the-edges charm and great tunes, and it’s probably the one I come back to most often. The closing medley is one of my favourite moments on any Paul record.
My solo pick would be Ram, without question. It encapsulates everything that makes Paul great – the singing, the playing, the songwriting, the inventiveness, the stylistic versatility, the sheer buoyancy of the whole thing. Ram is peak, quintessential Macca (ably assisted by Linda).
Maybe an impossible question, but what does Paul McCartney, as a human and songwriting icon, personally mean to you?
All I can really say in answer to that is whenever I’m feeling a little down in the dumps and listen to Paul McCartney’s music, I feel instantly better. It’s like a light switch comes on. His music has been doing that for me for 30-odd years now, as it has for millions of other people too. Put simply, Paul’s music makes people happy. You can’t place too high a value on an artist who’s blessed with the ability to do that, and who’s been doing it consistently for 60(!) years, whilst maintaining enviably high artistic standards into the bargain. And he’s still so into making music. His love and enthusiasm for his craft has never waned. What more can I say? The man’s an inspiration and we’re lucky to have had him around for so long.
“His love and enthusiasm for his craft has never waned”.
As you run a podcast called Sodajerker on Songwriting, would you say McCartney is one of the ultimate songwriters in terms of craft and ability? What differentiates his brilliance and style with that of his peers?
For me personally, he’s definitely at the top table, and I don’t think many would argue. It’s hard to pinpoint why exactly, but obviously you’d have to cite his unusually keen sense of melody; as Bob Dylan once said of Paul: “Everything that comes out of his mouth is framed in a melody.” Then there’s his overall sense of taste; he’s a very musical person, of course, but that musicality is almost always in service to the song. So he writes great melodies, but he doesn’t overwork them to the point that they meander and become a distraction, and they always sit comfortably within the framework of the song.
He doesn’t use too many chords, even though I’m sure he has an exceedingly wide chord vocabulary in his locker should he need it. Also, when he’s at his best, his music never feels forced; there’s an apparent effortlessness to it, but there’s a lot of craft that goes into making it sound that way. Oh, and he’s an underrated lyricist too. Yeah, I said it.
You just feel like you’re in good hands when you listen to a McCartney song, that he’s not going to let you down. And he’s been not letting us down since he was a very young man.
You actually have interviewed him for the podcast! Was there extra pressure on you because he is such a revered artist? What was the experience like?
I’d be a liar if I said we didn’t feel more pressure than usual beforehand. I mean, how could we not? But at the end of the day, we had a job to do and we couldn’t allow ourselves to be overawed by the circumstances. We certainly weren’t taking meeting a Beatle and a personal hero for granted, but we wanted a solid episode out of it too!
As for the actual experience, it was a very positive one. As anyone else who’s interviewed Paul will tell you, he’s terrific at putting you at your ease, and it was no different for us. He was very warm and welcoming - even offered us something to eat from his table of veggie snacks - and, really, once we sat down and hit record it was almost, dare I say it, easy. Then afterwards as we were packing away the mics, he asked us where we got the name ‘Sodajerker’ from, so we told him and he said, “Well, it’s catchy!” We’ve worn that as a badge of honour ever since. (I just wish we’d still had the backup recorder rolling to capture it).
It’s been a few years now since we spoke to Paul, and I still can’t quite believe it happened. It always feels like I’m recounting a wonderfully satisfying dream I had.
“It’s been a few years now since we spoke to Paul, and I still can’t quite believe it happened”.
To me, McCartney is still underrated. So many of his songs do not get the credit they deserve. Are there any songs from his catalogue that you feel more people should know about?
A few that come to mind (I’ll try and avoid anything too obvious):
‘Arrow Through Me’, ‘Daytime Nighttime Suffering’, ‘Call Me Back Again’, ‘Monkberry Moon Delight’, ‘Warm and Beautiful’, ‘The Pound Is Sinking’, ‘Somedays’, ‘Dear Boy’, ‘The Other Me’, ‘At the Mercy’, ‘Only Love Remains’, ‘Ever Present Past’, ‘Spin It On’, ‘I’ve Had Enough’, ‘I’ll Give You a Ring’, ‘Dominoes’, ‘London Town’, ‘Getting Closer’.
Although McCartney does not live in Liverpool anymore, is he still talked about a lot? Are the young songwriters of Liverpool influenced by his music and genius?
Well I for one never shut up about him! It’s funny, because looking back I think that maybe McCartney had fallen out of favour a little in Liverpool back in the ‘80s. George and Ringo too. I’m not entirely sure why that was, but there did seem to be this weird prevailing attitude in the city back then that pretty much any Scouser who had gotten famous, made a few bob and no longer lived in Liverpool had somehow ‘turned their back on us’ and forgotten their roots. (Even as a kid, I thought that was bollocks, and I still do). But the tide eventually turned back in Paul’s favour, and you only have to watch his Carpool Karaoke appearance to see how much he means to his fellow scousers. Incidentally, I’ve always gotten the sense that, of all the Beatles, Paul had the strongest bond with his hometown.
As for his influence on Liverpool’s young songwriters, that’s simply undeniable, surely? He’s so woven into the cultural tapestry at this point, it’s nigh on impossible for budding songwriters in Liverpool or any other city to escape his influence.
As Paul McCartney enters his ninth decade of life in June, what would you say his legacy is? Do you think his music will be discussed decades from now?
When Paul departs this planet (and I sincerely hope he’ll be around for a good while yet), he’ll leave behind a body of work to rival that of any great songwriter or composer you care to name, and I have no doubt his influence will be felt – and his work discussed - by generations of musicians and songwriters to come.
If you could get a single gift for McCartney for his eightieth birthday, what would you get him?
The complete works of Philip Norman. Will come in handy when he’s next having a ramble through his East Sussex woodland and he wants to get a fire going.
To end, I will round off the interview with a Macca song. It can be anything he has written or contributed to. Which song should I end with?
Let’s go with: ‘Monkberry Moon Delight’. It’s Macca at his most thrillingly unhinged, and it’s a joy to behold. That vocal could strip paint…